Strategies to Break the Cycle of Reaction When Divorcing a High-Conflict Personality

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Steve Altishin
So I guess part of the message is you can’t change them, but you can change how you react to them.

Barbara La Pointe
Oh, you nailed it. That's the entire essence of what we’re talking about today. Because as women, especially if you're empathic, you're likely going to keep trying to understand them, negotiate with them, explain yourself, defend yourself, justify yourself. But the narcissist isn’t listening in the same way. They’re listening for weakness, they’re listening for emotional reactions, they’re listening for where they can continue the conflict. So we have to stop reacting emotionally to their provocations. Easier said than done, of course, because they know exactly how to trigger us.

Steve Altishin
And I imagine they’ve had years of practice.

Barbara La Pointe
Exactly. Years. They know your insecurities, your fears, your wounds, your hopes, your dreams, and they know exactly where to poke. So the work becomes learning emotional regulation, learning boundaries, learning concise communication, and not engaging in unnecessary conflict. One of the biggest things I teach women is that not every accusation deserves a response. That’s hard for women because we’re relational, we want understanding, we want fairness, but with narcissists fairness isn’t the goal. Control is the goal.

Steve Altishin
That’s a really important distinction.

Barbara La Pointe
It really is. And once women understand that, they stop personalizing as much of the behavior. They begin to understand, “This is not about my worth. This is about their pattern.” And when you stop taking it personally, you start reclaiming your power.

Steve Altishin
So what are some communication strategies that actually help?

Barbara La Pointe
One of the most effective strategies is BIFF communication, which comes from the High Conflict Institute. BIFF stands for Brief, Informative, Friendly, and Firm. So instead of long emotional emails explaining yourself or defending yourself, you keep communication very short and factual. No emotional hooks. No defending. No justifying. No overexplaining. Because overexplaining actually gives them more material to work with and manipulate.

Steve Altishin
That must be really hard though when someone is accusing you of things that aren’t true.

Barbara La Pointe
Oh, it’s incredibly hard. Especially in the beginning. But eventually you realize that trying to convince a narcissist of your goodness is like trying to convince a shark not to bite you. You’re operating from completely different systems. So instead of trying to win emotionally, you focus on protecting your peace, protecting your children, protecting your nervous system, and staying grounded in truth.

Steve Altishin
You mentioned the nervous system earlier. I think that’s something people don’t always think about in divorce.

Barbara La Pointe
Absolutely. Chronic high conflict changes the nervous system. Women living in prolonged conflict often experience anxiety, hypervigilance, insomnia, digestive issues, exhaustion, emotional overwhelm. Their body is literally living in survival mode. So healing is not just mental. It’s physical. It’s emotional. It’s spiritual. It’s learning safety again.

Steve Altishin
And I imagine if someone’s living in that state constantly, it’s really hard to make good legal decisions too.

Barbara La Pointe
Exactly right. Which is why support systems are so important. Good legal support. Good emotional support. Trauma-informed coaching or therapy. Safe friendships. Because when someone is dysregulated, they’re more likely to react impulsively, and narcissists often count on that. They want the reaction because then they can point and say, “See? They’re the problem.”

Steve Altishin
That’s such an important point. So what does healing eventually look like?

Barbara La Pointe
Healing looks like peace. It looks like no longer obsessing over what they’re doing. It looks like emotional neutrality. It looks like confidence, boundaries, self-trust, and building a beautiful life anyway. Because the greatest victory over a narcissist isn’t beating them at their game. It’s refusing to keep playing it.

Steve Altishin
Wow. That’s powerful. We are almost out of time, unfortunately, because this has been fascinating. Before we go though, can you let everyone know how they can get in touch with you?

Barbara La Pointe
Absolutely. You can find me through my website at barbaralapointe.com. I work with women all over the world through online coaching, and I would be honored to support anyone navigating high conflict divorce or narcissistic abuse recovery.

Steve Altishin
Wonderful. Barbara, thank you so much for being here today. This was insightful, compassionate, and incredibly valuable.

Barbara La Pointe
Thank you so much for having me, Steve.

Steve Altishin
And thank you everyone for joining us today. If you have any questions after watching this, feel free to post them here and we’ll help connect you with Barbara or one of our attorneys. Until next time, stay safe, stay happy, and be well.

Outro:
This has been Modern Family Matters, a legal podcast focusing on providing real answers and direction for individuals and families. Our podcast is sponsored by Landerholm Family Law and Pacific Cascade Family Law, serving families in Oregon and Washington. If you are in need of legal counsel or have additional questions about a family law matter important to you, please visit our websites at landerholmlaw.com or pacificcascadefamilylaw.com. You can also call our headquarters at (503) 227-0200 to schedule a case evaluation with one of our seasoned attorneys. Modern Family Matters, advocating for your better tomorrow and offering legal solutions important to the modern family.

Steve Altishin
Yep, that's what I was just thinking, you know, and where you're heading is that, you know, we get a lot of clients as lawyers where the client is trying to do their best, and they have a high conflict person out there. And they just are continually astounded, surprised, can't believe that a person acts this way. And that's why I kind of liked when you said, you start to recognize it. So when it's no longer a surprise to you, I think that it's kind of a first way to start getting some of these skills. And so how can, what are some of the skills that folks need when dealing with a high conflict personality?

Barbara La Pointe
Yeah, thank you for that relevant and insightful question. I mean, in a relationship where you don't have kids or you're not involved in a family law case, often people say well go gray rock, just never have contact with them again. And oftentimes, we can't do that. If we're in a family law case, or we have children with them, that's not possible. So one strategy that I've used myself for many years, and women can perfect this through time and master it is bringing in the BIFF strategy. BIFF. And that's an acronym, Steve, for creating responses that are brief, informative, firm and friendly. So let's back up. If narcissists are using a language that's attacking, insulting, or demeaning, not consistent, not based in conflict resolution, no one wins, lies, manipulative. I mean, how do you feel? How would you feel?

Steve Altishin
Terrible! I mean, you get to where you don't know what to do a lot. You know, you're like, What do I do? Do I strike back harder? It sounds like what you're saying is that just feeds them.

Barbara La Pointe
Exactly, you're reading my mind, because it's like this, like, it feeds them. And when we call it "feeds them", it's a narcissistic supply, and it just keeps the loop going. It keeps the chain of reaction going. And it keeps the conflict going. And we might not even be conscious of that. We might be going, thinking we want this conflict to end. But the other person doesn't want the conflict to end. So someone might say, Well, why don't you just walk away? Well, you can't walk away from these people. And you can't walk away from family law cases. So you have to, you have to go through the storm to get out. And one of the first things I would say was changing your communication strategies to BIFF strategies: brief, informative, firm and friendly. When we're feeling attacked, when we're taking it personally, when we feel wounded, when we feel like it's affecting our identity, when the lies and insults hurt, the manipulation is working. And sidebar, they're really good at, again, manipulating professionals, because a lot of judges--oftentimes judges, and this is changing and Family Lawyers don't have the training for recognizing sociopath, narcissist, high conflict people. Some lawyers also though, get energized by them because it's easy to win their case because oftentimes, ironically, narcissists are charming, charismatic, well put together, operate well under conflict or pressure, you know?

Steve Altishin
Yeah, I got a question. BIFF, I really liked that. So much, a lot of stuff is done by email now, obviously, especially co-parenting issues, and you know, even in the divorce. And so, I'm assuming that, or maybe tell me if this is right, you know, I fire back in email, or I get a terrible email, you know, just flaming email, and I start to write something back... how do I not hit the button?

Barbara La Pointe
Yeah, so this is like the ultimate call to regulating your own emotions. Because you're emotionally charged, and it's triggering, you're emotionally triggered. And the trick is not to take it personally and see it for what it is. Because the narcissist would do this to his ex wife or his girlfriend, or his mother, even, if the mother and the girlfriend were different people, you know, that is to say they would do it to anyone, any person, it's not personal. So using this neutral, emotionally discharged language of the BIFF strategy, is really an empowerment, in my view, for women, because you can use them anywhere. And it's not saying Well, Steve, this isn't true. That's not true. How could you say this? Why are you lying? Why are you saying I'm an unfit parent? Why won't you let our daughter go to here? It's just like editing it down to brief, informative, firm and friendly, and the trick to that is waiting 24 hours, 48 hours if you can, before you put your fingers on the keyboard.

Steve Altishin
Yeah, no, I love that. It's kind of like that, you respond, you don't react.

Barbara La Pointe
And so it's self discipline, it's a mastery through time. And also, you know, if you have a coach, a new ways for families coach or someone you trust, you can work on it. Practice these new ways for families statements, these big strategies, until you perfect it because you'll have to use it always. And I always like to add on this a little extra is if you can find a lawyer, family lawyer that also uses BIFF strategies, all the better. The sooner you implement these strategies, the better your outcomes are moving forward.

Steve Altishin
And that's funny you say that. I mean, our attorneys here, one of their sort of mantras is not just for themselves, but for their clients is, you know, don't fire back an email. And even if you type one that's, you know, what you want to say, sit on it.

Barbara La Pointe
Or send it to your divorce coach, draft it, mail it to, you know, the cat down the street, but don't hit that send button. And that, you know, a lot of times narcissists most often are coupled with empathetic people, emotional people, soulful people, because they lack empathy. So they've got to get their nerve supply from somewhere. So it is an emotional journey, but it's learning how to ground yourself and regulate yourself so that those reactive emotions aren't driving your behaviors through time.

Steve Altishin
Right. It's kind of like, in football, the offense tries to dupe you into maybe, you know, rushing too fast. Or here's an opening, go get it, go get the quarterback, but they really know that's going to come. And they take advantage of that and score a touchdown. And this is sort of that same thing, they're trying to almost trick you into this, because they know that then now, they're the people on top.

Barbara La Pointe
Yeah, and they're just loving it, they're just pushing your buttons, triggering you, they know your trigger points, you're traumatized already, you're getting then re-traumatized when they get that touchdown. And then you recreate the loop and make the same mistakes over and over again. Emotionally, we call it like a limbic loop, where we're just emotionally reacting until we can step back, and start to understand what's going on. Becoming into our own power, seeking out the support of a divorce coach, a counselor, a psychologist, becoming more mindful, rather than leaking our energy out to these conflicts that draw us in, that trigger us, that trick us. If we can learn these skills of mindfulness, communication strategy of BIFF, making effective communication strategies, like saying, I request this and I request a response within 48 hours, putting that timeline on it, and not getting drawn in. So it really it comes down to emotional regulation ourselves.

Steve Altishin
Right, right. So this is a skill, like you're saying, This isn't just a, I'm going to make a promise to myself to do it. This is a learned skill.

Barbara La Pointe
It is a learned skill. And that's hopeful because everyone can learn it. And the sooner you understand that, especially in family law cases, it will save you so much energy, so much time, so much money, and you'll get better outcomes in terms of court orders. Because the narcissist is really good at eroding your credibility to the point where you might start-- in common culture, we call it gaslighting, right--but we might start questioning ourselves. Am I a narcissist? Am I a bad parent? Right? And so you've got to rebuild and reinvest in your own self esteem bank, in your own energies in yourself, bring the focus back to yourself so that you're playing the The Art of Peace, not the Art of War. Right?

Steve Altishin
That's a great line. The the importance of like, in these situations, a coach, I'm really glad you brought that up. And that kind of leads to, you know, what you do is help people who do this. And I know that when we talked before, you had talked about this new ways for families methodology? Is that one of the systems that you can use, or what is that?

Barbara La Pointe
Yeah, well, new ways for families is from a program for families, parents going through a divorce that teaches you new ways for dealing with these old problems of high conflict personalities. So we work through the BIFF strategy and you can practice that with me as your coach until you perfect it. It's teaching you all the red flags, helping you to identify, because oftentimes when we have a high conflict personality in our lives, we don't just have one. We either go out and attract another one or engage with another one, or we have them in our history, we have them in our family tree, right? So it helps us to understand, in a more comprehensive way, how we can be solution focused with these folks that create conflict for fun.

Steve Altishin
Yeah, I love, you know, the idea of being able to recognize a red flag, because you know, the BIFF is about responding. But a lot of times, it feels like people don't even recognize that this is a red flag that they're getting themselves into.

Barbara La Pointe
Yeah, that's the most powerful thing if we can recognize the red flags and avoid ever meeting one, because the easiest way is when you see a narcissist in the workplace or in divorce, is to slowly back away once you recognize the red flags of the personality, and not allow yourself to get in a position of vulnerability where they put a target on your back and blame you, create a smear campaign about you, drive your family law bills up, up, up, emotionally damaged you, victimized you, right? So you've got to remove the target from your back and get back into your power. And that's process through time. But a coach can really help you, new ways for families is phenomenal, high conflict Institute is a phenomenal, relevant resource, but you need the emotional support. Because, you know, you don't want to go into your family lawyer and and just start crying or complaining. You want to go in there collected and regulated.

Steve Altishin
I love that. I love that. And you talk about emotional, spiritual healing, you know, personal empowerment. And you you you get that from your history. I know you wrote a book about all this, about your kind of journey. Do you mind telling us a little bit about maybe your story and how this weaves into what we're talking about today?

Barbara La Pointe
Yeah, I'd love to. So I'm the hero of my own story. I went through a high conflict divorce for over five years that escalated into a high conflict custody battle. My ex spouse has spent about $30,000 a month trying to smear campaign me through affidavits filed to have all my parenting rights removed including religion, custody, parenting time for my daughter. This all with a background of me being a full time stay at home mom and when I was a teacher for vulnerable children. So it was really like all or nothing thinking, it was really expensive. A lot of times I didn't even have money for our lives because it was going to sustain my family law defense. And it was shocking. It was shell shocking. I felt victimized. I felt really victimized. I felt broke, inside and out. It was awful. I didn't even know what a narcissist was until I read Bill Eddy's book, Five Personalities That Can Ruin Your Life, and that is a groundbreaking book that changed my life. And it allowed me to start saying okay, his personality isn't going to change. How can I stop supplying narcissistic supply? How can I use the best strategy? And that started a lasting transformation for me that's still going on, the healing renewing cycles never stopped. But through time I did write an e-book called Erased By a Narcissist: One Woman's Journey to Divorcing a High Conflict Personality, and it's packed full of tips to save you time on the minefields that come up when you deal with individuals that love to create conflict instead of resolving conflict.

Steve Altishin
Yeah, I love this. I love this stuff. We're about to end this because unfortunately, 30 minutes just ran by. I would love you to let people know how they can get your book. And you are, like you said, a Relationship Divorce Coach. How they can get a hold of you if they would like to talk about using your services?

Barbara La Pointe
Thanks Steve! Well, barbaralapointe.com has a lot of free resources and free downloadable PDFs about mindfulness healing, and the free ebook about narcissism, so I'd go there. I do really fun helpful healing videos on Tiktok and I have a YouTube channel as well. So I'm very active on social media and I answer people's questions in real time.

Steve Altishin
I love it. Well, thank you again so much for being here, bringing really a lot of experience and a lot of knowledge to talk about dealing with high conflict personalities, narsissists, all of those kinds of just destructive states when you're trying to go through a divorce and, you know, kind of breaking that cycle of reaction and victimhood. That's what you're bringing to us, and I want to thank you very much for doing that today.

Barbara La Pointe
Thank you, Steve. I think it's a relevant topic, and I enjoyed our time.

Steve Altishin
Oh, I did too. Absolutely. And I'd like to tell everyone listening, that if you have any questions on this, you can post it here and we can get you connected with Barbara. Barbara has given you ways to connect with her as well, feel free just as well. So until next time, everyone stay safe, stay happy, be well.

Outro:
This has been Modern Family Matters, a legal podcast focusing on providing real answers and direction for individuals and families. Our podcast is sponsored by Landerholm family law and Pacific cascade family law, serving families in Oregon and Washington. If you are in need of legal counsel, or have additional questions about a family law matter important to you, please visit our websites at Landerholm law.com or Pacific cascade family law.com. You can also call our headquarters at 5032270 200. To schedule a case evaluation with one of our seasoned attorneys. Modern Family Matters, advocating for your better tomorrow and offering legal solutions important to the Modern Family.

Outro:
This has been Modern Family Matters, a legal podcast focusing on providing real answers and direction for individuals and families. Our podcast is sponsored by Landerholm Family Law and Pacific Cascade Family Law, serving families in Oregon and Washington. If you are in need of legal counsel or have additional questions about a family law matter important to you, please visit our websites at landerholmlaw.com or pacificcascadefamilylaw.com. You can also call our headquarters at (503) 227-0200 to schedule a case evaluation with one of our seasoned attorneys. Modern Family Matters, advocating for your better tomorrow and offering legal solutions important to the modern family.