Creative Ideas to Motivate Children as Virtual Learning Looms Ahead

The biggest step we can take to set ourselves up for success is to reprioritize our expectations for ourselves, as parents, as well as for our children. Expectations are going to have to, and they should, be shifted and modified.

An activity to help prioritize expectations is to get out sticky notes and make a collection of expectations for yourself, as well as for your child. Once you’ve created a list of expectations that feel feasible, illicit your child’s opinion. Allow them to be part of the conversation and to input their own opinions of what they feel they can accomplish, and the most effective way to structure their day.

Parents should remember that the “shame game” will get you nowhere. Remember that every parent is struggling in some way, shape, or form. If there was ever there was a time to stop shaming and comparing, it's now--it is an exercise in utter frustration and has no utility.

Even if a child has a skill within their repertoire to achieve something in school, that doesn’t mean they will be able to accomplish the same goals within their new home-school environment. A child’s behavior is largely dictated by their environment. It’s not always a realistic expectation to see identical performance from a child within a home environment without social cues. One way to help this is to create a space for your child to work, such as in an office or at a desk within their room, that doesn’t require them to tune out stimuli and will indicate that “this is the place where you work”.

Consistency and a reliable schedule can help to reduce anxiety in children, as they do not always have the ability to self-modulate. At the core of this is the need for empathy and relating to our kids, so that parents can then collaborate with their kids to come up with solutions that everyone can live with.

One silver lining to virtual learning is the opportunity to have concentrated time with children. Take this time to practice empathy and relationship building with your child. If your child is in a position where you’re worried about their mental wellness, remember that you cannot fill all roles within their life—parent, teacher, chef, counselor. Employ the help of professionals, such as the school counselor or a pediatrician.

La analista de comportamiento, Chris Messina, y la Directora de Marketing de Landerholm Family Law, Kari Landerholm, discuten acerca de ideas creativas para motivar a los niños mientras muchas familias se preparan para un año escolar virtual.

El paso más grande que podemos dar para tener éxito es replantear las expectativas para nosotros, como padres, así como también para nuestros hijos. Las expectativas deben, y tienen que ser cambiadas y modificadas.

Una actividad para ayudar a priorizar las expectativas es usar notas adhesivas y hacer una colección de expectativas para usted, así como para su hijo. Una vez que haya creado una lista de expectativas que se sean factibles, tome en cuenta la opinión de su hijo. Permítales formar parte de la conversación y que den sus opiniones sobre cuáles son sus límites y la forma más efectiva de estructurar su día.

Los padres deben recordar que el "juego de la vergüenza" no los llevará a ninguna parte. Recuerde que todos los padres están luchando de diferentes formas o maneras. Si alguna vez ha habido un mejor momento para dejar de avergonzar y comparar es este: es una práctica de absoluta frustración y no tiene ninguna utilidad.

Incluso si un niño tiene una habilidad dentro de su repertorio para lograr algo en la escuela, eso no significa que podrá lograr los mismos objetivos dentro de su nuevo entorno de hogar-escuela.

Steve Altishin 1:12

Good morning. I'm Steve Altishin, Director of Client Partnerships here at Landerholm Family Law. Welcome to our Facebook Live broadcast. Today we want to focus on some specific issues that parents and their children face as the new school year prepares to start. For that we have Behavioral Analyst, Chris Messina, with us. Hey, welcome back, Chris.

Chris Messina 1:36

Hey, thanks for having me. Steve.

Steve Altishin 1:38

You bet. We also have Landerholm Family Law's Marketing Director, Karissa Landerholm, here. Welcome Kari.

Kari Landerholm 1:45

Hey Steve, Hi Chris.

Steve Altishin 1:47

So Kari, I know this is a topic that is particularly close to you as a mother of two school-aged kids, and not just you but other parents you have spoken to as well. I also understand you have some specific questions you'd like to ask Chris. So without any further ado, Kari, let's get started. I'll let you go with your first question.

Kari Landerholm 2:07

Okay. Hi, Chris. I'm really excited to actually do this panel for Facebook Live just because, with the new state orders that have been implemented for getting back to school, I feel like all of us parents are having this stress and anxiety about what we need to be doing and thinking about. And the most common theme that I have been hearing from a lot of mom friends is this mantra of, "I can't do this", or "how am I going to do this," or "I don't want to do this." It just feels very overwhelming. And it's almost as if we feel like we're failing before we even begin because there's so much on our plates. Do you have any suggestions for how we can alter that viewpoint or how to get out of that thought process going forward?

Chris Messina 3:04

I think "I can't do this" will be the most commonly uttered four words of 2020. I know because I have uttered them myself many, many times through this pandemic. So the reality is, if we expect ourselves and our experiences to look like they did pre-pandemic, we are setting ourselves up for failure before we even get started. So I think the biggest step we can take to move away from that thinking is to start to define for ourselves, what do we mean by "this"? Right? I can't do "this". What does "this" look like? Because it should not and will not look the way that it did before this all began. So it really boils down to what are your expectations? We all had expectations of ourselves as parents, and our children as students and learners prior to this beginning. Those are going to have to, and they should, shift and be modified. So something that I would recommend for parents to take a look at well before the school year begins is what are your expectations of yourself as a parent? Literally get out some sticky notes and make a collection of expectations that you have of yourself, then make a collection of expectations you have of your child. And then zoom out and take a very good hard look at the reality of what that means. We are not going to be able to manage the same way we once did when we are trying to work full time, trying to manage our kids behavior at home, monitor their education. So even if it means reducing, paring back, scaling back, whatever--we may be uncomfortable with that, but we have to modify those expectations or we will literally set ourselves up for constant disappointment.

Kari Landerholm 5:02

Can we involve our kids in that sticky note creation and have them be part of the conversation of narrowing down the priorities and what we actually feel like we can accomplish and get done? And how do we go about doing that? Or is this something that as a parent, we should be deciding for them?

Chris Messina 5:26

That's a great question. You know, I think kids feel utterly out of control during this time. Their anxiety, like ours, is at an all-time high. So when and where we can find opportunities to give our kids control, let's do it. And it's an opportunity to try that in new ways that we may not have done prior to the pandemic. So the way that I like to encourage parents to try thinking about expectations is to initially try it as the adult, or adults, in the home. So I would go through that exercise looking at "what do I expect of myself?" Because honestly, some of this is self-reflective work, right? We're really hard on ourselves as parents, and we hold ourselves usually to pretty high standards. So take a look at what are you expecting? What have you historically expected from yourself as a parent? What have you honestly expected from your kids? Because these are tough conversations to have with ourselves and with our kids. So I would do that exercise as the adults first. And then I might invite the kids into looking at those expectations you have of them. Certainly they don't need to be privy to what you expect of yourselves, unless you want to share some of that. Right? Vulnerability is going to go a long way here and kids understanding that 'we're in this with you'. This is not something unique to kids struggling. We need to sort of let them understand: "I get it. I'm confused too. I don't have any easy answers". But I would say, once you've looked at "what have I historically expected from my child?", share that conversation with them. What can we expect? Solicit their input throughout all of this because you're going to get some real headway into getting buy-in from your kids when you invite them into that conversation.

Kari Landerholm 7:10

That makes sense. I feel like having the correct expectations is really difficult. I mean, even in a social media heavy world where you see your neighbor down the street, or friend of a friend of a friend, who has their kids still enrolled in concert piano lessons virtually. And whatever language they're learning they've hired a private tutor, or they have these new educational pods that everybody's forming if you can't get your kids back to school, and it just feels like the task list has become exponentially larger. So can we give ourselves permission to have three basic things on the list of sticky notes?

Chris Messina 7:53

Absolutely. Listen, there are certain fundamental things that must occur for human beings to survive, right? So honestly, when we say "I can't do this", well, if "this" means getting everybody up, logged on to the screens where they need to be to attend the class, and food in everyone's mouths, that might be okay to start. If that's what you can manage, then that's what you can manage. You know, it's a very slippery slope to start comparing ourselves to the folks down the street with three different foreign language classes and oboe lessons. I was talking with a family the other day and a mom shared that she was feeling really ashamed of herself as a parent. That she was really not holding up her end of the bargain. I think she had some workbook she got at target, and was requiring the kids to do 20 minutes a day and she said, "this is all I've asked them to do, and they're still battling me. Meanwhile, kids down here are taking concert piano lessons." The shame game will get you nowhere, because the truth is, under the surface, every single one of us, every parent, is struggling in some way, shape or form. You do what you can do. So if ever there was a time to stop shaming and comparing, it's now--it is an exercise in utter frustration and has no utility.

Kari Landerholm 9:10

Yeah. That makes complete sense. Because even in the early days of the shutdown, I'm thinking to myself, like, how is my oldest child not able to be more autonomous and get things done? And it's that comparing and contrasting to maybe his friend seemed to be able to stay on task better. And it took a lot of redirection, and almost felt like nagging at times, to just get it done. Get your work done, finish this assignment, how much longer is it going to take? And that internal dialogue that I was having about, "Why isn't he more autonomous with this?"

Chris Messina 9:52

Yeah, and I think recruiting connection with other parents through them is really helpful and can be really important. But it's a fine line to walk because we want to relate, we want to connect, but we don't want to start comparing. I hear a lot from parents that, you know, "my kids should be able to do these things, they're able to do these things at school, they should be able to do them at home." So sometimes we blame ourselves for that. Sometimes we blame the kids or a combination of both. But the reality of behavior is this: even if we have a skill in our repertoire, say we can do something at school--I can attend for 45 minutes during a math class. Well the conditions at school are entirely different than the conditions at home. Our behavior is largely dictated by our environment. So I think recognizing that as parents, we are not teachers. Well, some of us may be but even still, you don't have your teacher hat on, you have your parent hat on. We cannot do what the teachers are doing at school, we do not create an identical environment. And the truth is, social consequences at school weigh very heavily on our child's behavior. Remember, that's totally absent in the home environment. So they're not responding to social cues, they're not aware that, you know, you may get sent to the office or asked to leave the classroom if you're talking--those consequences, in large part, dictate how our kids' behave in school. So now strip that all away. That's a tall order to try and place on ourselves as parents, that we should somehow be able to replicate that-- we simply can't. So you're going to see that a kid who can do something in school may really struggle with it at home, and that's gonna require some problem solving with your child. Right? But go back to that list of expectations-- if you expect your kid to behave in an identical fashion, at school and at home, I'm not so sure that's a realistic expectation for your kids.

Kari Landerholm 11:46

Sure. Is there something that we can do in the home environment to sort of replicate the idea that school starts now? Now is the time to get to work, now is the time to switch that hat on about learning and being ready. Is there something that we can mimic that might help set us on a good foot forward?

Chris Messina 12:10

Sure. I think having these conversations with your kids as soon as you possibly can, since we're already into August and some schools start three or four weeks from now. So I think being proactive is going to be super important. So if you have not started having some conversations with your kids, because presumably they all are aware that we'll be in a virtual environment for who knows how long really, I would have those now. And they would look something like this: once you are privy to how your child's week is setup--so I don't know how many school sessions per day per week, each parent will know that-- you're going to want to establish a pretty consistent schedule. When kids go to school, their schedules are really predictable. Some predictability is going to go a really long way with your kids. Now, there are some non-negotiables in that schedule, right? So if you've got an 11:30 class and a two o'clock class, well, obviously you're going to log on and attend those classes. Where you have some flexibility, I strongly encourage doing some collaborative problem solving with your kids. Invite them in because you're more likely to get compliance and buy in if you look at that day and say, "What else are we going to do?" What feels manageable for your child? So I don't think setting up an eight hour school day that mirrors what they have in school is going to be realistic, right? So maybe you've got some flexibility in there. But if your child participates in planning that schedule, I think it's going to go a long way. And the other piece is that, depending on your home environment, it's not always reasonable to have a quiet separate room where your child can be. I mean, let's be honest. However, what I see a lot of families default to, whether it's for tutoring after school or now this homeschool scenario, is that they'll want their kids to work at the kitchen table or the kitchen island or the dining room because they can keep an eye on their child. While I understand the thinking behind that, it's a really difficult place for a child to attend when there's all sorts of stimuli to tune out. The way that behavior works is, when you go into school, a child sees their desk, they see the classroom environment, well it signals that certain behaviors occur here, right? So it's the same reason that when you and I walk into Starbucks and we order a coffee from the person in the green apron, we don't ask them to fill our gas tank because this is what you do when you come here. That's exactly what happens at school. So if we can find a space where we have them, even if it's out of sight--I think that's preferable to doing it at the kitchen table--create some kind of workspace. Whether you've got to get some kind of collapsible fold-up table with your whiteboard and your writing utensils, create that space, have a timer, so you can give your child some expectations. But I think that that's going to go a long way to mimic, in some way shape or form, the signaling that this is where you work. I was working with kids in the spring, and they were reading in their beds, trying to do some reading comprehension in their beds. And it's like, "yikes". I mean, maybe for some kids that might work, sure. But your child, and every parent, has to make that decision. If you think your child can be successful in their bedroom, okay. But from my perspective, from where I sit, having a designated space is going to be super important.

Kari Landerholm 15:22

Does that follow through then to having them get up and get dressed and ready for the day? Or is it okay to chug along in our pajamas all day?

Chris Messina 15:34

Well, actually, Steve and I talked about this in the past. It's the idea that you dress for the day you want, right? I mean, personally, I think we all joke and we kind of all lift our pajama pants up during our Zooms as adults and say, "What pajama pants do you have on?" And I'm gonna laugh about it, and you know, there are times when that's okay. I think that if we get our kids up, we get them fed, we regulate bedtimes. I know this is a much more difficult thing to do in these kind of bizarre times, but as much and to whatever extent you can to make it feel like, I mean, we wouldn't let our kids go to school in pajamas unless it's pajama day. So get up, get dressed, have the same rhythm. Kids will say to me, "but I'm sleeping the same number of hours". It doesn't matter. You are conditioned to go to bed at 930 and wake up at seven for school. Try to be as consistent as possible. Because the reality is, I think that will reduce anxiety, and I've seen it reduce anxiety. Kids don't know, depending on their age in particular, how to self-modulate. We need to do that for them. And if life feels as normal as possible, like you don't get to wear PJs and wake up at 10 because class starts at 1030, we're doing them a huge service by providing for them the structure. It's more work for us. Bottom line, I have tried every which way, I have two of my own as well. So I thought, how do I get out of this and what's the path of least resistance here? It's just more work for us. I don't think there are any easy answers or any shortcuts we can take if we really want to do the best for our kids.

Steve Altishin 17:04

I was just thinking, you talked about anxiety. And that seems to me, in my world when I look at it and as parents also, is that is a driving force right now, and a lot of it seems to stem from almost a fatalistic view of what's happening right now. And they're not worried about tomorrow or the next day or the next day, they're focusing on 2021. You know, is this what we're going to be doing in 2022? And it seems that that makes it tougher to kind of get into a flow if you're worrying about the big picture. Maybe sometimes that has to be set aside in your planning.

Chris Messina 18:02

It does. And I think as parents, our default screen in our brain is always to look long term, right? That's how we survive. Right now with the uncertainty--I mean, uncertainty breeds so much anxiety in all humans, kids and adults alike--it's probably going to require some real intentionality for parents to do this. But I think, you know, of course, we have to look at weeks at a glance. I mean, we're not going to schedule day-to-day as I'm sitting here talking about planning and consistency. But there is no long-term benefit right now to look at Spring. It's like, for me, when I walk into my kitchen, and one of the things on my list of expectations that I've had to set aside--so I've got my sticky notes and I put the kitchen cleaning way over here because that's not happening--well when you see that mound of dishes you don't even know where to begin, right? You've got to start with one dish. If I look at that, it's that state of overwhelm that literally paralyzes you. So what's the good in looking at December? I've heard parents say to me, "Well, our school district gave us a date that we may continue virtual out beyond that", and they're panicking. Okay, well, let's just wait and see. We have an opportunity here, while we're all managing anxiety, to see one real silver lining, which I think is relationship-building with our kids. I mean, when have we in the past, and will we maybe ever, I hope never again, have this concentrated time with our kids? It may be that focusing on connection and empathy with your child and recognizing that we're all struggling in this together, which is kind of a unique situation for kids and adults to be struggling in such a similar way, If you focus on building a relationship, I mean, heck, I'd rather see that develop even if math skills maybe plateau a little bit. That feels really important to me right now for kids management of their emotions during this.

Kari Landerholm 19:54

Yeah. Talking about this anxiety, and this stress, and overwhelm, it feels like we're all having to now put on multiple hats. We're having to be teacher, we're having to be Betty Crocker. The last thing I want to do is think about dinner at night, and what are we going to eat?

Chris Messina 20:13

I know! I think, how can we have so many meals?

Kari Landerholm 20:17

I'm so tired of that "what's for dinner?" But then, you know, the houses are dirtier because we're home more, and more laundry is needing to get done, and it's all of these things, not to mention working from home and trying to manage multiple and more hats than we ever have before. And it feels very overwhelming. It's hard to pull back and compartmentalize. And then throwing in having to try to motivate your kids to stay on task or encourage them that "just today, we're only trying to get through this one assignment." It just feels daunting. And I don't know if setting those expectations and sort of cleaning out and reprioritizing helps alleviate and helps us to compartmentalize so that we have something to refer back to that can lower our anxiety. Do you see that as something that's really helpful with that?

Chris Messina 21:16

Absolutely. So when I referenced earlier literally getting sticky notes and making your columns of, "Okay, here's what I've always expected of myself and my kids." Literally, take your sticky notes, and I would leave them somewhere visible, whether it's in your office or in the family kitchen message center. Literally take the sticky note and place it over here so that you can prioritize, "what can I manage?" In the same way that we talk about a child and we go, "Well, they should be able to do this at home". Why should they be able to? If we operate from an assumption that kids and adults do well if they can, then we go, "Okay, there is a reason that this child is not operating at full capacity or with the same skill set here". Same holds true for us. And you mentioned earlier, "Hey, what if I have three things on my list?" I would rather a family have three things, start to navigate that conversation with yourself about "All right, I've got to be gentle with myself, and not so shameful", and do those three things well. So I think this is an opportunity to be pretty gracious with ourselves, which I don't think a lot of parents are.

Kari Landerholm 22:22

No, we're not.

Chris Messina 22:23

No. And I think for parents, the tendency is going to feel like "I've got to be a teacher and I've got to be a counselor." No, you do not. And fortunately, the schools have had much more time to prepare for the fall, so it'll be a lot more dialed in in terms of structure. No, we are not their teachers, and we are not their therapists. Advocate for your kids to get the support that they need. There are people forming tutoring pods and all sorts of things, so get the help you need. And if your child is in a position where you are wondering about their mental wellness, my first line would be to reach out to the school psychologist, which most schools have, or school counselor. Do not hold yourself accountable to play all these roles. It will be crazy-making and you literally can't do it. Even trained individuals have other jobs that are not going to yield great results if we try and tackle that.

Kari Landerholm 23:16

How do you know if your child needs help, or has an issue with mental hygiene?

Chris Messina 23:23

Great question because I think everybody's going a little bananas right now. So we would expect some fluctuation. I mean, you know your child's baseline. I think only a parent can answer, and you may have to bounce it off the other parent just to kind of make sure that you're assessing this correctly. But you know when something is dramatically different enough that your antenna go up. If your antenna, even just one starts to pop up, I would always err on the side of caution. This is a time when we're going to see a lot of mental health crises. Err on the side of caution and reach out. Reach out to the school or reach out, you know, a lot of pediatricians’ offices have folks on staff. There are a lot of virtual options. Always err on the side of caution, but trust your gut. A parent knows when something's off.

Kari Landerholm 24:13

Well and I feel like we have to give our kids permission to have a bad day too. If they're feeling down for a few days, is that okay if they bounce back the third day? Or is there a way that we can engage them in conversations in a positive manner, instead of them feeling like they're being nagged about getting things done, that helps them have a say in what's going on, or that can open up that conversation with the parent?

Chris Messina 24:42

Yeah, that's an important thing to think about because when we look at concerning behavior, we look at a pattern over time. So two or three days, if a kid's kind of mopey, and you know, kids tend to be like retreating to their bedrooms a little more. Steve and I had talked in the past about kids doing more tech phone time quietly in the room. That's to be expected. But if you see a trend, and I look over a course of two weeks. So if you're seeing a trend that's enduring that long, I would say go ahead and reach out. And listen, kids house the information that we want. If you're wondering about your kid, go to your kid, they've got the information inside here somewhere. How do you get them to start even considering talking about it? If we go to them with anything that feels like an attack, a question that may back them into a corner, you're going to get nowhere. But if you come at them with an observation, so let's say you observe your kid retreating for 10-12 days. If you share with them your observation, "Hey, I've been noticing that you've been fill-in-the-blank, or pulling back, what's going on? What's up?" Ask them! Recruit it in a very neutral posture, not when they are engaged in a moment of behavior, but when they seem to be available and calm. Let them share with you that empathy and then let them know that you understand. "I see you retreating, I want to retreat to." I think if they see the adults in their lives are experiencing the same range of emotions, it might help them to feel comfortable being open and vulnerable.

Kari Landerholm 26:15

Is there a term for those, the way that you go about those conversations and starting it with them?

Chris Messina 26:23

So the empathy statement is sort of embedded in this collaborative problem-solving approach, which I would strongly recommend parents go online and do some deep digging into that approach. At the core is empathy and relating to our kids, so that we can then literally collaborate with them to come up with solutions that we can both live with.

Kari Landerholm 26:47

So with everything going on and having to reprioritize and lessen our expectations of us and our children, is this something where we should just not have any goals whatsoever for the foreseeable future until this pandemic is over? Or can we set some new goals? And would that help in having something to look forward to or something you can accomplish?

Chris Messina 27:16

I think when we talk about shifting expectations, a lot of parents start to feel like "I'm some kind of submissive parent, don't I have to hold them accountable? Isn't that the point?" Because of the stress for everybody, it really is the best path forward. But when I talked earlier about this opportunity to relationship build, well, what that looks like in action is different for every family. Right? So my suggestion is, well hey, you know what, if relationship building is going to take the form of: this family is going to focus on cleaning up our diet and healthy eating together, or my kids and I are trying to do some running together. That may be reading a shared book together and having your own little bookclub, whatever, there are a million ways that can take form. But I think having goals that really have a foundation of relationship building, it's probably pretty prudent to think about that. I don't think we need to drop all expectations, just the more traditional school year, homework expectations- we're going to need to take a closer look at those, which is hard.

Kari Landerholm 28:23

It's very hard.

Steve Altishin 28:25

Chris, you're talking about goals, with a pandemic especially. What about kids? Kids have goals. And kids have expectations that are built in over the years and may not just organically come up. And I think especially kids as they get into high school and toward college, who for years, part of their structure and their goal has been doing things to get into the college they want to get into--Cal Institue of the Arts, NYU, Stanford. And that goal is still built into their DNA, so are there things that can be done to bring that out and talk about that? Because it seems like there are goals of the kids that need to also be looked at in a different manner, and be assured that it's not going to kill you that you didn't make that last piano thing.

Chris Messina 29:36

Two thoughts. When we talked earlier, Kari, you asked, “Do I recruit my kids and look at that list of categories of expectations for self and for them?” Depending on your child and their willingness, you could certainly have conversations, especially with adolescents and older teenagers, about how might you pare back or manage and shift around your expectations of yourself? Not every kid is going to have the capacity to go there and have that conversation. If your kid does, I say go for it. Because the truth is we have to remember, on the other side as well with all of the schools accepting students, everybody is having to modify expectations. So we may not be able to access all of those extracurriculars and things to get me into that school or to build my resume. But guess what, they know that. They're aware of that. So everybody's modifying at the same time. I read the other day, a parent was feeling really concerned, “my kids going to miss out on all these math skills, potentially”. And the feedback was: this is a universal problem. So it's not just your kid in your school district. Remember, we're all figuring this out together. And you know, I think for kids to understand there are no easy answers here, but we're going to problem solve as we go. It's a pretty nice opportunity to try some collaborative problem solving with your kids and to also just kind of recognize that sometimes you have to lean into the discomfort of life. And uncertainty is sort of the nature of being human. So to whatever extent we can, let's help our kids manage some of that anxiety through whatever techniques work for them. Because I'm not sure this ride is over anytime soon.

Kari Landerholm 31:21

Exactly. You hear all the time about creating "me" time for yourself. Well it's exponentially harder when everybody's home all the time. So is there anything that we can do for our kids to make them feel like they are having a break? And for parents, how do we create a space or a place that allows us some time to recoup and to rest and be able to start fresh?

Chris Messina 31:53

That's a tough one. I think when you look at, and this is the advantage of scheduling, so if your family decides Sunday afternoons we're going to sit and we're going to forecast for the week, which I recommend, the good news is: weeks are not going to be vastly different. If your kid has class these days, they will have them these same times per day next week. But the extras--those sort of gaps--build in, as much as you are comfortable with, time connecting with other kids. Whether that's with masks and you're 10 feet apart outside, be intentional about it with other families that feel comfortable doing the same. I think early on, it was sort of exciting for kids. "We can Zoom and have Zoom parties that everybody's watching Zoom movies", but that lost its luster pretty quickly. I think we need to be the ones who really encourage our kids, even older kids. You know, with my 13-year-old, I'm having to help prompt some of that by reaching out to moms, even though they're perfectly capable. Kids are not sure what to do. Who can I call? Whose parents are comfortable? We've got birthday parties coming up. Get outside. The good news is this is going to be in the fall, so weather's pretty good, even in Oregon. We can get out there with umbrellas. So get out as much as possible because if this does extend through the winter, at least we've filled some of that need for connectivity and we can resume more virtual connection through the winter. But time for ourselves, I'm not sure. Again, modify! That might just be a 10-minute walk around the block, but give yourself that. If you were someone who was able to go to Pilates three times a week, well, that may not happen. Give yourself something because you can't serve your kids well if you are completely depleted, obviously.

Kari Landerholm 33:36

Right. And I feel like that sort of goes along with, and I know you and I have talked about this, advocating for your kids, and advocating for them to their teacher if they feel overwhelmed, but also advocating for them at home. We're the ones that are observing them the most now because they aren't at school. So being able to register if they need a break. And being okay with that, and not having that shame that we're not keeping them on track for that whole entire school years worth of curriculum that they're supposed to be learning.

Chris Messina 34:10

That's right. And other parents don't realize this, but from where I stand I'm able to see it in my work, lots and lots of parents are asking for that same break for their child or extension on an assignment. So just know, as parents, you're not the only one asking. It does not reflect poorly on you as a parent. You are just honoring your kids needs, and you're prioritizing their wellness over those extra division problems this week. For the most part, teachers, if we are consistently advocating for our kids, I'm assuming will be really flexible.

Kari Landerholm 34:41

Yeah. Let's hope. I'm hopeful that they will be too. They're all in the same situation.

Steve Altishin 34:51

Wow. So we're about to wrap up, but Kari or Chris, any last minute thoughts, or something that came up that you'd like to expand a little bit on before we have to take off?

Kari Landerholm 35:10

I do have one other question in regards to motivation. I feel like different kids are going to be motivated by different things, whether internally or externally. If we're having a hard time with keeping them on task, or they just don't feel like doing much at all, is there a tool that we can use that engages them in finding a little bit of motivation to get through a rocky day that doesn't just say, "Okay, go play Xbox for the next eight hours"?

Chris Messina 35:50

I say lean into a schedule to the point of obnoxious in my work because it can serve so many purposes and it teaches so many skills. If you have a schedule, one of the advantages of homeschooling is that the day is longer. At school, you've got a finite number of hours. You can stretch the day out for your child. So if you have a kid who's going to be motivated by doing some kind of physical games and shooting hoops, and you wouldn't normally feel comfortable building that in and taking a break between math and reading, do it. Prioritize that and do the work a little bit later in the day. It's tricky because I think as adults, we feel unmotivated as well. So remember, we create this kind of mirror situation where they feel our energy. And I certainly don't think excusing kids from work for multiple days and over the course of weeks is appropriate. There may be times when you need a mental health day. I think all of us have taken off a day of work because we need a mental health day. But you know what, maybe the day is longer. Maybe you're doing some things after dinner that you might not have done otherwise. But motivation is typically derived from our environment. So there may be some need to look at incentivizing. Incentives can go a long way. So again, if you adopt this approach where you empathize with your child, let them understand how hard this is, and that you see this. Ask them what they would like. I mean, kids are full of great ideas. How do they want to structure their day? What's going to motivate them? Ask them! We oftentimes as parents feel so responsible for generating solutions. Ask the person for whom you're trying to solve the problem! Just ask. Really, the takeaway for me, if we had to sort of walk away and say, "Okay, what have I learned here? What can I do right out the gate?", it's going to be looking at expectations and empathy. If nothing else, get out your sticky notes right now with your red pen, do it. Start looking at expectations. And even if it feels contrived, empathize with your kid, because I honestly think we all can empathize.

Kari Landerholm 37:54

Right. I love that. There's going to be a rush on Amazon sticky note. I'm gonna do that right away!

Chris Messina 38:06

Get different colors, I love all the multicolored options.

Kari Landerholm 38:08

Yeah! Different colors, make it art. Well, I really appreciate going over all of this information. And you know, I'm hoping that we can refer back to it and we have this idea in our head of lowering those expectations or reprioritizing them and having a little empathy for ourselves and our kids.

Steve Altishin 38:32

Again, don't beat yourself up. So many people are used to being perfect about everything, and you can't always be perfect.

Chris Messina 38:45

We should have done this from my car so I can show everybody what a reprioritized dirty car looks like! Listen, this isn't forever. Let it go for now if you have to.

Steve Altishin 38:56

Just like the song. Thank you so much, Chris. This was really helpful. Thank you, Kari. It was just a brilliant conversation. I really, really think it's helpful and it was enjoyable and I think on a lot of levels are going to help a lot of people. So thank you both.

Chris Messina 39:15

Thank you.

Kari Landerholm 39:16

Thank you.

Steve Altishin 39:17

And if anyone has any further questions, you can shoot them to me at Steve@landerholmlaw.com or you can post them here and we will get you connected with Chris. And with that until next time, as always, everyone stay safe. Stay healthy. Enjoy the day. Enjoy your kids.

Kari Landerholm 39:39

Thank you Chris!

Chris Messina 39:40

Bye, thanks Kari.